NEA - Rights Watch: Cyber Speak No Evil

cece | 2012/02/07

u ppl r slow

Stephanie | 2012/02/07

@ Cale Teacher I agree that making student connections is very important, but no teacher should feel responsible when a student resorts to immature slander. Students who slander should be consequenced, otherwise we're just enabling them. In the adult world, do you consider it appropriate to go around bad-mouthing everyone you don't like?

bee | 2012/02/02

this is a very good message listen to it people

Sharon | 2011/07/21

I think the court truly does need to take some decisive steps regarding technology and students' negative use of it. When they are angry and have decided to post things on a webpage regardless of whether it is true or not, that can have lasting damage to the teacher or student they have posture about. Several students at my school decided acting out the stabbing of their science teacher was a good idea. They were suspended and removed from the academic team. Those types of behaviors are disruptive to the learning environment whether they were made at school or not. I think the students should be lucky that it was a suspension and team change versus legal action. They as well as other tend to forget that once it's out there taking it back is pretty hard, especially when you decide to YouTube it and lots of people have downloaded it before it is noticed. I'm all for technology and freedoms, but where does social responsibility fall? I really think this is an issue that is much larger than the schoolyard and the courts are still trying to navigate their way through it.

making | 2011/07/11

Children do not need to know about sexually deviant persons. http://www.clip-mask.com/Masking.html

clipping path | 2011/07/11

You CAN figure out how to build relationships and respect with your students and not have to resort to suspension.

Science Teacher | 2010/11/27

This is the first time I have visited this site in search of sound legal counsel. I am embarrassed to know there are educators with a myopic perspective of what is wrong with our schools. It has nothing to do with the 'GOOD BOOK' and everything to do with teaching children how to THINK, not brainwashing them with a lopsided perspective of the world. How sad for all of us.

LM | 2010/10/29

as sociated and as set

LM | 2010/10/29

apparently [Explicit] and [Explicit] are bad words.

Calc Teacher L.M., MET, JD | 2010/10/29

1) Increased suspension rates lead to lower performance, even when accounting for demographic differences. (www.iub.edu/~safeschl/ChildrenLeftBehind/pdf/2D.pdf) 2) Teachers have to recognize that we can be just as much THE CAUSE of school disruption as students' speech. (All too often, vengeful teachers seek punishment or witch hunts due to hurt feelings. This is what ends up causing disruption at school). I am embarrassed to be [Explicit] with many of the educators that have posted here thus far. Most comments are nothing further than moralist, retrograde polemics. Real tragedies in our schools at the hands of teachers: 1) not using research-supported methods. 2) below average capability and effort. 3) hiding behind the union while targeting students as the problem, rather than using [Explicit] thinking/being mindful of our locus of control (we are unable to change the moral attitudes of our students, we ARE able to to change how we interact with them). Oh, and before you tell me that I don't know what its like and that you have it harder than me -- I teach in a sub-10% meeting/exceeding school that has been in restructuring for ages. You CAN figure out how to build relationships and respect with your students and not have to resort to suspension. Oh, and guess what: if a student writes a bad post about you, it probably means you haven't connected with that student. Side note: the "problem" with this country is the legitimization of ignorance and retributive policies, not students behavior. (See e.g. tea party, Christine O'Donnell, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/20/opinion/20dowd.html?_r=3&hp and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/22/AR2010102202873_2.html?wpisrc=nl_pmopinions&sid=ST2010102204725)

MJohnson | 2010/10/16

Since when did the First Amendment protect slander?

friend | 2010/10/12

?

friend | 2010/10/12

The kids slander may be hard to take, but worse yet, is all the backbiting and political manueverings that go on in schools. teachers are notoriously territorial... but if they find someone who doesn't agree with them.. say they don't support building a casino in their community... the most vocal ones are the supporters of it ,... even if nothing is ever said at school.... they mark that person for anilation... ( socailly that is) I am amazed at how hatefully some of these " professionals " can be. They hound and [Explicit] until they can find a flaw ( we all have them) and pick at it like hens in a hen house. Their goal , get rid of any conservative thinking , God fearing teachers that have any inch of political activism in them. Amazing. Then we wonder what's happened to the schools . Where are the teachers who really love their students ? Well don't let me get on a soap box, but I think there is somewhat of an agenda in some of our schools to lliberalize education. That at a time when we need to go back to the principles of the GOOD BOOK. Children do not need to know about sexually deviant persons. They don't even need to be discussing alernatives to sexual behavior at all. They will soon enough discover ***. All they need to know is that there are those who are responsible and those who are irresponsible. They need to be responsibile no matter what they want to call themselves. Hum,, I wonder,... do hereosexuals get Hey , I'm glad to be what God made me day? Heterosexuals come out of hiding? So,what are we doings giving a day to celebrate the deviant behaviors of sinners? What next a day to celebrate pedifiles? Really!

friend | 2010/10/12

The kids slander may be hard to take, but worse yet, is all the backbiting and political manueverings that go on in schools. teachers are notoriously territorial... but if they find someone who doesn't agree with them.. say they don't support building a casino in their community... the most vocal ones are the supporters of it ,... even if nothing is ever said at school.... they mark that person for anilation... ( socailly that is) I am amazed at how hatefully some of these " professionals " can be. They hound and [Explicit] until they can find a flaw ( we all have them) and pick at it like hens in a hen house. Their goal , get rid of any conservative thinking , God fearing teachers that have any inch of political activism in them. Amazing. Then we wonder what's happened to the schools . Where are the teachers who really love their students ? Well don't let me get on a soap box, but I think there is somewhat of an agenda in some of our schools to lliberalize education. That at a time when we need to go back to the principles of the GOOD BOOK. Children do not need to know about sexually deviant persons. They don't even need to be discussing alernatives to sexual behavior at all. They will soon enough discover ***. All they need to know is that there are those who are responsible and those who are irresponsible. They need to be responsibile no matter what they want to call themselves. Hum,, I wonder,... do hereosexuals get Hey , I'm glad to be what God made me day? Heterosexuals come out of hiding? So,what are we doings giving a day to celebrate the deviant behaviors of sinners? What next a day to celebrate pedifiles? Really!

be fair | 2010/10/11

So, let me get this straight. If teachers discuss a student online, or in any other public venue, in any way (positive or negative) our jobs would be in serious jeopardy. But a student can refer to an adult online in a slanderous way and that's "free speech." Maybe teachers ought to be able to go online and rate their students or proclaim which ones are excellent and which are the worst students ever. Why does a 12 year old have rights that I don't have?

Michael Egan | 2010/10/08

"Free Sppech" is a right to someone "of age", meaning an adult; voting age. If one is not able to defend oneself with a slander or libel suit, then there should be no "right". No recourse - no "right".

Richard Palzer | 2010/10/05

?

Richard Palzer | 2010/10/05

The essential issue should be what we are attempting to teach our students. Quoting from the article's opening description,the students in question "vilify, parody, or defame school employees," in direct contradiction to the values of tolerance and respect we say we're trying to instill. Defamation-of-character violations are serious offenses because they cause serious consequences, harm that laws exist to prevent. There is little question that such defamation is the intent and effect of what was written. That "the courts have given conflicting answers" regarding students' rights to post such descriptions and allegations is more than just disturbing--their ambivolence only serves to add credence to the notion, under guise of First Amendment protections, that virtually anything said, no matter how hurtful or harmful, must be allowed as "freedom of speech." We lament the disastrous effects of cyber bullying, culminating in the ultimate consequence, suicide of victims. And yet we continue to grapple with whether to accept published demeaning of a person's character and value. In the cases presented, defamation is evident, even blatant. This issue has reached the point of foolishness, even self-destructively so. NO, students do not have the right to defame classmates or school personnel. If educators of our children do not uphold values we purport to stand for, who else stands in the way to prevent? I argue further awareness of the well-documented dangers of liability of Internet posts coming back to haunt students as they apply for college or apply for employment. Please, common sense and the value of human respect must prevail. Richard Palzer 409 Colfax Ave. Clarendon Hills, Il (630) 325-0908

B.W. Gaines | 2010/09/28

It is ridiculous and foolhardy that these young people supposedly have so many "rights" when the underlying principles that are at stake are "discipline" and "respect". The courts and judges that make decisions which allow students' whims and feelings to trump good common sense and sound wisdom will be the cause of the downfall of not only these students but of generations to come, and eventually, the downfall of us all. I can already envision this, as I have worked in the school system for 18+ years and have witnessed children cursing and dishonoring those who attempt to educate them and to [Explicit] them in becoming respectful and productive citizens. I sometimes feel that society has gone mad!!!

Physics Teacher | 2010/09/25

Besides all the great comments on slander and libel...I feel we need to address the level of immaturity and better ways to express disagreement with anyone.

mahindra persaud | 2010/09/25

I think that it is very ridiculous for students to take advantage of the first ammendment to attack teachers and principals who work so hard to educate them.What if these teachers post obscene stuff about these students? Then it wouldn,t be right but shouldn't the teachers have a right to protect their character?

R. Pomeranz | 2010/09/25

It seems to me that there is a very big difference between some of the cases mentioned. If a child goes on to the Internet and declares that I am the worst teacher he has ever encountered, that must be protected under the student's First Amendment rights. I hope that some other student will respond to the first say that I was a good teacher, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. However if a student starts a Facebook page claiming that he is me, that is identity theft and I do not understand why any such students wouldn't be prosecuted for identity theft. If a student fraudulently misrepresents himself as me, that student should face both criminal and the family, civil charges.

TeachKids | 2010/09/23

With all the technological advances during the last half of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st centuries, teachers at all levels have failed to teach ethics. At one point in our history, real recent history, you could not graduate college without ethics. As a high school student in New Mexico in the late 1970s, every teacher taught ethics, most within their curriculum, but I had two who taught entire lessons throughout the school year on ethics. However, I agree that the on-line behavior is libel, and, also, a form of harassment and verbal [Explicit] .

Science teacher | 2010/09/22

If some one published malicious slander/gossip in a public newspaper, wouldn't the victim have the right to sue for defamation of character?

? | 2010/09/22

Funny. Reminds me a something called libel.

Coach | 2010/09/22

I believe it is absolutely a problem that the extension of the 1st amendment rights is used as a loophole to defend a student or anyone who posts on a publically shared website such as myspace or facebook anything that creates a defamation of character, or slanders someones name in speaking about such things a drinking and drug use, when there is no viable proof of the person doing so. It undermines teachers authority. If a teacher does this to a student, the parents would be sue, and win, because it is harassment, and it should not be different because they are minors. Their parents should be held accountable for their children's actions.

Sam Edgar | 2010/09/21

Everyone is free to have and opinion, and to express that opinion, but they are not free to express it at any time or in every place. Telling your friends that you don't like a teacher or administrator is one thing,but posting it in writing could be an entirely different matter.

Carol | 2010/09/20

Why did you delete the word [Explicit] ? You used it in your article.

Carol | 2010/09/20

Why is it not considered sexual harassment to accuse a principal online of being a [Explicit] ? This is a clear case of harassment in the workplace if I ever heard of one. At the very least, it is libelous, and the student and parents should be sued.

Guy Fawkes, Jr. | 2010/09/20

These students should be throttled. What's the world coming to?(rhetorical)

EllaMarieRB | 2010/09/19

Teachers nowadays seem to have to be OVERLY CAUTIOUS as to what they say or teach in the classroom, for fear that it would be easily misinterpeted. For instance, common idiom, proverb, or witty statement commonly might not sound innocent today, or could be easily understood by the current generation of students. As a result, a teacher might be reprimanded, or scorned for saying something not aware of how unfavorably it would play in current circumstances. However, it is now tolerable if a student due to dissatisfaction of a poor academic grade, intentionally published something spiteful and retaliatory in nature, that potentially would hurt the credibility and reputation of ironically a teacher who is dedicated to the learning of students (a teacher who actually "teaches" students and upholds them to high standards of character and academics). Such a student is championed over a teacher who exerts honest efforts to prepare students for their futures.

EllaMarieRB | 2010/09/19

?

Susan | 2010/09/19

My rights end when they hurt or defame another person.

Amjy | 2010/09/19

Who is running this country and our schools? The adults or the kids? If we can sue adults for libel why are kids protected to the detriment of the educational process? And we wonder why we are going to [Explicit] in a hand basket?

Bonnie | 2010/09/19

The rights of free speech do not, and should not, protect deliberate untruths. We do not have the right to defame others. This is slander and is illegal.

Walt | 2010/09/19

Teachers are currently responsible for upholding and delivering curriculums that discourage cyber-bullying among students. There must be consequences for such bullying whenceever it comes.

Renee | 2010/09/19

I think that if we can't depend on the courts to consistently uphold the punishments, then unions and school districts should provide the legal representation for teachers' civil lawsuits against the students and their parents.

Valerie | 2010/09/19

Where does it end? If a teacher should post something like this would it be viewed as Freedom of Speech? Of course not. The teacher would be fired. Students, in some counties, can be disciplined for cyberbullying other students. Why is it seemingly okay to target a teacher and assume no responsibility? There seems to be a gross double-standard here that isn't a standard at all. This subject revolves around what we as adults permit.

Allison | 2010/09/18

@ Stacey... Well Said!

Stacey | 2010/09/18

Of course, slander and libel are crimes and a student can and should be disciplined for them. However, a child's right to complain about their teacher, whether aloud or online is protected, so long as the student does not make any deliberately false claims. What I find most disturbing is the fact that the parents of these children, instead of being upset with their child for exhibiting such poor moral choices, are upset with the school for taking action. I fear for what happens to a society when the majority of people are more concerned with what they're allowed to do than they are with what is the right thing to do.

Jimmy | 2010/09/18

I believe that the true interpretation of freedom of speech is to allow everyone the right to express their views without the fear of someone retaliating against them. However when this right is exploited to purposely defame another person, then the integrity of this right has been diminished. This is where the line should be drawn and the constitution and not the abuser should be protected.

Threasa | 2010/09/18

Certainly we do not want to step on anyone's right of free speech, however, when students engage in malicious and unfounded accusation against school employees, they undermine the ability of that employee to be effective in the school environment to say nothing of potentially ruining the employees reputation, livelihood and life. As educators, we are charged with providing safe environments where educational opportunities can be maximized. If we tell student's it is OK to publish whatever they want on a worldwide medium, we are further destroying educator's rights and abilities to perform the tasks they are charged with.

Jay | 2010/09/17

If a student makes a false claim about a teacher it is slander.

Sue | 2010/09/17

If our US Supreme Court has upheld the political right for anyone/business/organization to tell lies publically about candidates and issues then why should anyone be surprised kids will act the same way. Yes, it is wrong. Why do you think our job as educators has become so difficult? It has to start one interaction at a time. Educators should challenge, be [Explicit] and protect their own dignity, in or out of a court room.

Sue | 2010/09/17

If our US Supreme Court has upheld the political right for anyone/business/organization to tell lies publically about candidates and issues then why should anyone be surprised kids will act the same way. Yes, it is wrong. Why do you think our job as educators has become so difficult? It has to start one interaction at a time. Educators should challenge, be [Explicit] and protect their own dignity, in or out of a court room.

? | 2010/09/17

I'd say when student make false profile it's a form of ID theft and they could be criminally prosecuted for that. (Posing as someone else is criminal) However if they are on their own blog, myspace or FB page then yes they have the right to free speech. If said speech is hatefully and full of lies then slander lawsuit should be filed. But if statement are true or personal opinion, like "I hate my teacher" then I think their free speech should be protected.

Ewwie | 2010/09/17

Where has morality and conscience gone? Just because our society protects our RIGHT to do something does not necessarily conclude that it is the right thing to do. If your motivation to exercise your right to Free Speech is malicious, you should think about what kind of person you are...

Maria | 2010/09/17

Let me get this straight - people are getting FIRED merely for airing complaints about their bosses or jobs on social pages but a fifteen year old can call his teacher a [Explicit] or a drug user without consequence? Am I the only person not getting this?

Rudolph Patterson | 2010/09/17

I think it incredulous that people are allowed to slander an individual on the auspices the right to freedom of speech.

13th generation teacher | 2010/09/17

Reading through these postings, many suggest "simply" suing the offenders and their families. Our legal system is not set up to "simply" do anything. Before bringing a lawsuit you must be able to prove a financial loss due to the actions in question. A damaged reputation is not grounds for a civil suit, unless it has done its damage to you physically or financially. A lawsuit further involves paying a professional an hourly fee that amounts to several days' pay for a teacher, in addition to court filing fees. It requires months and more likely years of stressful and difficult interaction with the court system. In the end, even if the ruling is in your favor, the family does not likely have enough to pay the judgement. Meanwhile, the damages to the victim continue to mount. If the victim manages to remain employed, often the hostilities raised in the workplace and in the community make it impossible continue to function as a professional. I watched this happen to one of the most popular and respected educators I have ever had the priviledge to know, simply for disciplining a particularly disruptive student, whose own mother was heard to wonder (in court) at the improvement in the student's behavior following the incident in an attempt to show how traumatic the incident was for the student. It has been mentioned that no other profession has special protections against this type of thing, but no other profession is so vulnerable to slander and libel. Whispers ruin careers. False profiles are indeed tantamount to identity theft. In a profession where your behavior outside the classroom is more closely watched and gossiped about than celebreties in the tabloids, where teachers have been fired and stripped of their credentials for what others post on their websites, I would argue that we need special protections against slander and libel more than other professions.

Ronda | 2010/09/17

How much time and money do we spend teaching that it is wrong to cyberbully? There should always be consequences for bad choices, otherwise we teach tolerance for inappropriate behavior. I don't think that we can afford to do that in our society.

CV Duncan | 2010/09/16

Simple case: sue them or their parents for libel or slander: The elements: 1 false and defamatory with malice 2 Communicated to a 3rd party 3 Communicated with reckless regard for the truth and negligently 4 Specific Damages. If a kid does that to me, I will sue their parents for compensatory and ask for punitive damages. If they don't have money, then get a judgment that will force the kid to have to deal with it for a long time. Judgments can tie one up and paralyze one's ambitions. But that is the pric to price to pay when you act stupid and if it is threatening there can be criminal penalties. Put the kids or parents in jail who do some of this or attack their assets or paralyze their future for comittiing such heinous stupidity and we'll see how long this lasts. Stand right up in their face when they do this. "Don't step on Superman's Cape.

CV Duncan | 2010/09/16

Simple case: sue them or their parents for libel or slander: The elements: 1 false and defamatory with malice 2 Communicated to a 3rd party 3 Communicated with reckless regard for the truth and negligently 4 Specific Damages. If a kid does that to me, I will sue their parents for compensatory and ask for punitive damages. If they don't have money, then get a judgment that will force the kid to have to deal with it for a long time. Judgments can tie one up and paralyze one's ambitions. But that is the pric to price to pay when you act stupid and if it is threatening there can be criminal penalties. Put the kids or parents in jail who do some of this or attack their assets or paralyze their future for comittiing such heinous stupidity and we'll see how long this lasts. Stand right up in their face when they do this. "Don't step on Superman's Cape.

Koni Fujiwara | 2010/09/16

I don't believe that freedom of speech can be used to defend what is essentially hate speech. No one has a right to publicly defame and insult another.

Christa | 2010/09/16

It deeply saddens and disappoints me that there are people and students in the world who stretch their freedom of speech rights to the point where hurtful and obscene comments are made about others. I don't believe that is what the First Amendment is intended for and I hope that these individuals start getting an attitude adjustment to where good morals and kind words can be used!

J in Portland Oregon | 2010/09/16

The postings seem to be in retailiation for some disiplinary action taken. Should students be rewarded for bad behavior? Freedom of speech should be protected at all costs. However, so should the privacy of teachers. How can we do our job if we are afraid to discipline a student? I agree. This is what NEA is for!

J in Portland Oregon | 2010/09/16

The postings seem to be in retailiation for some disiplinary action taken. Should students be rewarded for bad behavior? Freedom of speech should be protected at all costs. However, so should the privacy of teachers. How can we do our job if we are afraid to discipline a student? I agree. This is what NEA is for!

Kevin | 2010/09/16

granted, as individuals, it may be difficult to successfully bring siut. But that is why we belong to the NEA and state affiliates. Why are they not bringing suit on our behalf. How about it NEA

? | 2010/09/16

I certainly can understand all the angst and frustration this subject brings up. I can't think of anyone who would want even the mildest of these incidences inflicted upon them. And I do believe that those students who falsely present a teacher or administrator doing something illegal should face some sort of discipline from the school. The bigger issue here, however, is where, as always, are the parents in all this? Why aren't more of them monitoring what their kids are doing on line - from an early age before the kids get used to getting away with more and more unacceptable online behavior. Kids will be kids, and they will always push limits. It is our jobs as parents, and as teachers, to set safe limits that are enforced - something that school systems, and parents, often find, either through lack of support or lack of interest, so difficult to do.

Ryan | 2010/09/16

This just as much a problem as bullying and as old as the Salem witch trials which was started by gossip mongers as will. Remember citizen class well they need one for all grades. I don't think that if a teacher sees something outside of school that they should use their authority in the class. They should use the law and school together to report the problem. With online activity the bullying and name calling are just now visible to all. It is the same problem that has been there. It needs to be dealt with using the law. When a 3rd party is involved it isn't reprisal. Which is what students will view a teacher punishing them for outside school activities. Everyone needs to become responsible citizens report it to the law. In school it is the school. Online it is the provider of that service. I think this is what school councilors are for, and lets not forget that parents are responsible for children under 18.

Jill | 2010/09/16

Isn't what these students are doing considered libel and slander?? People are often punished in court for those offenses. If we can sue an adult for doing the same thing, why shouldn't a student be punished?

Kathy | 2010/09/16

?

? | 2010/09/16

Haven't we given enough control to the children? They have now determined how we can discipline them. If we touch them they just call CSP and we get fined or spend time in jail. In school the teacher can't do things that were allowed in the 1950's or even the 1980's because we have allowed children to "scare" us into doing what they want. People are becoming parents without really knowing how to be one and there are bullies out there running the world. It scares me to think that a student, a child, can go online and say whatever they heck they want about a teacher, administrator, etc. and there's no consequence for it. If someone bashes a celebrity and it's called slander and a retraction or whatever has to be made. Accusations, whether true or false, have serious reprocussions to someone's life. Let's not give kids more power than they should. We need to take it back and be the adults. The ones who know better and can teach these kids how to be good responsible adults.

Brenda | 2010/09/16

When my students do something inappropriate, I tell them, "If I can lose my job for what you just did, what makes you think it's ok for you to do it?" So my question is - Will I lose my job if I start a "John Doe is the worst student ever!" myspace page? Will the law protect me the way it protects them? Grown-ups have feelings too :S

rick | 2010/09/16

Sue the school district. They always pay and never go to court. Its the new American Way.

Mike | 2010/09/16

What is the students age? When does the statute of limitations expire?

Accolade | 2010/09/16

Students need to be taught responsibility and face the reprecussions of their actions. A reputation is not to be sullied by a student prank or need to feel important. If they have a viable complaint, let it go to court. Putting it on MySpace or Utube should force a legal action to support their accusations or become liable for slander and malicious or premeditated offense/murder.

Michael D. Simpson | 2010/09/16

I'm the attorney who wrote the "Cyber Speak" article, and a little surprised by all of the comments it provoked. I just wanted to add a couple of comments of my own. The trend in the courts plainly is to grant school officials greater authority to punish students for their vicious and defamatory postings on the Internet. And I think that trend will continue, particularly if the Supreme Court takes up the issue. Many who posted comments suggested that school employees sue for defamation. While that is always a possibility, legally it is not a very practical solution, for several reasons. First, you can't sue Facebook or MySpace for defamation; federal law makes them immune. Second, while you can always sue the student (provided you can find out who s/he is), students tend to be judgment-proof; they don't have any money. While most states have "parental responsibility laws" that make parents responsible for the intentional torts of their minor children, virtually every such statute has a very low cap ($5000 or so) for how much a plaintiff can recover from the parents. Finally, it's very expensive to file a lawsuit, and difficult to prove damages when you don't have a broken leg. A defamation action is a very different animal than a medical malpractice action, especially for lawyers. I'm sorry that the news is not more encouraging, but I would hope that school employees and their unions would vigorously lobby their school boards and superintendents to respond agressively when students attack school personnel in cyberspace.

Jim | 2010/09/16

If you?re in a union, by all means fight vigorously for your right to discipline ?students? who do such things. Just be glad you aren?t a college adjunct with no union protection, no benefits, and earning less than half what full time professors make. In that situation, when a ?student? makes a false allegation, you loose your job, your reputation, and you have no union to provide any level of help at all. Please support the efforts of all adjuncts nationwide in their efforts to unionize. Meanwhile, at the local level, use your union for the right to hold back students who aren?t interested in learning. It appals me that at the college level, particularly in community colleges, about 2/3 of the freshman have to take ?developmental? courses (think remedial, think high school level) to bring them up to high school graduate level, even thought they technically are high school graduates! Why? Because the high school management and school board at their high schools forced the teachers to pass them on to minimize the drop out rate! That is certainly not doing those children any favor. Thank you.

Anna | 2010/09/16

Isn't this a clear case of defamation of character? Therefore, wouldn't this be criminal instead of simply school related??

-PC | 2010/09/16

Guys, nothing in the article said you couldn't have a private right of action against the dafaming students. The legal question is whether the SCHOOL District can punish for things that happen outside of school. I don't know about you, but I have enough on my plate without having to police what the kids are doing outside of school. Quite bluntly, I'm not paid enough to do it. Now if someone injures me outside of school, I will deal with just as any citizen can and ought to, but I don't want to make it part of my job to do so. If the defammatory actions affect the orderly administration of the schools, then the school district can "pile on" with my blessing and, apparently, that of the courts as well.

Norton Homer | 2010/09/16

Take heart - literally. While our generation (Teachers of a certain age) are working out, running, bicycling, swimming, etc., the youth are wasting their time, fitness, and life expectancy sitting in cyberspace. Soon they'll be too weak to press the keys. :)

Teacher E | 2010/09/16

Several people have posted that the individual should sue for defamation of character, what you have to remember is that in those cases it would be an individual suing, not the school district. It therefor would be a private matter and would not set an example of the student since in most cases they are minors and those reports are locked. Yes, it is important for students to know that slander and libel are illegal acts. The other issue that I see in many of these cases is that the school is trying to get the right to remove the toxic student from the school environment. If a student in my classroom drew a picture of murdering me (has happened) that student would get suspended and also a good amount of counseling. However if that same student goes home and draws that picture and runs it in the paper the school can do nothing... I don't know about anyone else, but personally I don't want the kid fantasying about my murder to be in my class.

Florida Teacher | 2010/09/16

Just out of curiosity, where are the parents of these kids? Yes, there is a LEGAL gray area here, but there is a clear MORAL white and black area. What the kids have done is wrong. Unfortunately, as with many other cases involving students, parents refuse to either teach their children the difference or to exact punishment when the child commits an act that is morally wrong.

Chris V., New Jersey | 2010/09/16

I'll try again: The law appears to be lacking in [Explicit] a teacher/ESP that a cyber-post or website about him/her is not required to immediately notify the same person of its existence. Part of the problem I see with the whole issue is the lie(s) planted in cyberspace, allowed to germinate and bear such rotten fruit as an unexpected visit from: highers-up, law enforcement and parents. About parents, some of whom work in education, aren't they ultimately responsible for the behavior of their children? Shouldn't they be praised for their child's stellar behavior and be sued should the kid go below and beyond anything remotely resembling acceptable, whether it be bad grades or bad behavior. Shouldn't students who post vile lies about anyone in education be "rewarded" by immediately getting placed in alternative school, once their cyber-claim is dis-proved? Or are we going let such bad behavior mature into the kind of people who openly, yet baselessly, malign US in the in the media?

Pat | 2010/09/16

Just wait until a student accuses you of improper behavior and gets other students to back them up. You are guilty, fired and your life is turned upside down. Before you can even respond. How do you prove a negative? Your only support is your family and your union. The district is so afraid of the students they will leave you twisting in the wind!

Hilarie | 2010/09/16

Cyber-defamation is JUST as BAD as Cyber-bullying!!!

Chris V., New Jersey | 2010/09/16

Post not printed, I wonder why?

Chris V., New Jersey | 2010/09/16

?

Michelle | 2010/09/16

I had a fake profile on MySpace made about me and they were very cooperative in getting it removed. They sent me a verification number and I had to email them a picture of me with a hand written sign with that number and my face showing to prove it was the real me. It was removed promptly. This is a dangerous line. I don't know what will happen in the future or how we will be able to resolve this. We can't be everywhere and things created on the Internet often can't be proven to be created by one person.

Teacher | 2010/09/16

What about suing for defamation of character. It sure seems to apply here. And, yes libel. The courts are out of hand.

Teach | 2010/09/16

A few years ago a student in one of my classes created a Facebook page similar to the one about Ms. Phelps in Florida. The student even took my picture off the school web page and used it as the profile picture on the account created for "hating" me. When I asked Facebook to remove the account they did not even respond to me and the account is still there. When I talked to the technology people in my school district about copyright laws and the student using my photograph they were not interested in helping me either. I agree with other posters here, if a teacher were to do the same thing to a student, s/he would be sued and lose his/her job. It is quite a (wrong) double-standard and it makes me very angry.

Kentucky Jill | 2010/09/16

What point many are missing is that these cases are debating whether schools can punish students for things they do outside of school in cyberspace that involves school officials, such as fake profiles. It is a very gray legal area, because they aren't on school property when these acts occur. However, no one would argue the individuals so attacked can't seek legal remedies in these cases and I hope they did. I think if enough people get sued for libel for what they say online, the abuses would begin to end. The beauty of the first amendment is that we can say anything we want without government interference, but that doesn't mean we won't suffer the consequences afterwards, including being sued for libel. Students need to understand that.

?? | 2010/09/16

I wonder if I would be held accountable if I, as an educator, did/said some of the same things about students and parents as they have done to teacher, principals, etc. Not that I would ever do that, but it's something to think about.

? | 2010/09/16

Well, if it's libel, the judgment shouldn't go to the schools. Especially if the student is not taking the role of school as seriously as they should. It ought to be upheld by a SANE judge and jury. In real life, if one commits libel, then wouldn't the person who committed it be sued in favor of the victim. Just because the child is underage does not mean that they cannot face some of the same consequences as adults? I believe they ought to. This does not negate the First Amendment rights since spreading lies about someone is not a protected right.

? | 2010/09/16

You're kidding me on some of these cases!!!!!! Seriously, a lot of what I'm reading about is libel and that is actually an offense. It's one thing if there is proof and all these accusations are true, but most of these sound bogus. Real victims go to the police, one has to realize that. Stupid stupid judges.

Ed Darrell | 2010/09/16

In each case, the victims should have sued for simple libel. School administrators are not public figures. They are not fair targets for criminal allegations, especially where licensing is involved. A claim of criminal action, or conduct that would prevent the licensing of a teacher, is defamatory

Turn about...fair play? | 2010/09/16

The end to this "debate" is this: If a teacher did the same to a student, a firing will occur, because the student is a victim. So why shouldn't be held to the same standard for students to teachers? These kids understand what they are doing when they victimize teachers/administrators.

Al | 2010/09/16

As a 60yr old student at Yale Law School kids do not know what is protected speech and what is not protected speech under the US constitution. It is not unrealistic to give schools the authority to discipline students for attacks in cyberspace because kids feel a sense of entitlement that they can do and say anything they want without accountability.

Teacher M. | 2010/09/16

I sometimes wonder if some of these circuit court judges even bother to use their common sense when making decisions on cases such as this one. If a teacher went on to defame a student in cyberspace the judges would be quick to punish the teacher; I think students need to be held accountable for violating the rights of others. The first amendment was not enacted for fools to triumph over responsible citizens. I think judges are to blame here for failing to interprete and execute the laws in an intelligent manner. The most scary thing here is that some of these irresponsible students are going to be your future judges and they will set the world on fire.

WV JOE | 2010/09/16

These court cases state the students are creating fake information about people. Basically lying and in breach of the contract agreements of the social network provider. Also, this amounts to "cyber-bullying" as more states inact legislation in regards to such "bullying" behaviors related to technology. Can and why not prosecute the unsupervised children/teens and parents for harrassment and false information about the postings? A few hefty fines on parents and students being removed from access to the Internet and things will change without creating more local school policies being challenged in courts.

WV JOE | 2010/09/16

These court cases state the students are creating fake information about people. Basically lying and in breach of the contract agreements of the social network provider. Also, this amounts to "cyber-bullying" as more states inact legislation in regards to such "bullying" behaviors related to technology. Can and why not prosecute the unsupervised children/teens and parents for harrassment and false information about the postings? A few hefty fines on parents and students being removed from access to the Internet and things will change without creating more local school policies being challenged in courts.

Ms. Self-Respect. | 2010/09/16

Wow. What an amazing collection of answers and feedback if I have ever heard one... It would appear that teachers are not being heard. There is a BIG fear with technology and all the 'unanswered' questions that lie within the usage of such tools. Ultimately...a teacher must reach His or Her Audience...and show them how they love to learn, and be able to instill a self-respect... Based on the nature of our current placement within the global situation, This is a very petty argument and I feel "bullied" as a teacher because there are people who act stupid and irresponsible on social networks...does this MEAN that only the ignorant are allowed to benefit? Why can't a teacher be allowed to be on social sites and SHOW responsible usage...give THEM a voice online...and you will be amazed.... then again, I've seen alot of stupidity online from parents, teachers and students alike----COME on...ADULTS--we have to be 'responsible' with our actions, regardless of your opinions with 'privacy' and the [Explicit] okay to be a 'good' person online with high values, good ethics, and self-respect...when you respect yourself online, others will respect you in return. including students. Believe it or not, there are MORE positive students waiting to be tapped...then negative ones.....don't ignore the potential of the truly GREAT. Ignore those that create conflict and stop giving them acknowledgment.

Ms. Self-Respect. | 2010/09/16

Wow. What an amazing collection of answers and feedback if I have ever heard one... It would appear that teachers are not being heard. There is a BIG fear with technology and all the 'unanswered' questions that lie within the usage of such tools. Ultimately...a teacher must reach His or Her Audience...and show them how they love to learn, and be able to instill a self-respect... Based on the nature of our current placement within the global situation, This is a very petty argument and I feel "bullied" as a teacher because there are people who act stupid and irresponsible on social networks...does this MEAN that only the ignorant are allowed to benefit? Why can't a teacher be allowed to be on social sites and SHOW responsible usage...give THEM a voice online...and you will be amazed.... then again, I've seen alot of stupidity online from parents, teachers and students alike----COME on...ADULTS--we have to be 'responsible' with our actions, regardless of your opinions with 'privacy' and the [Explicit] okay to be a 'good' person online with high values, good ethics, and self-respect...when you respect yourself online, others will respect you in return. including students. Believe it or not, there are MORE positive students waiting to be tapped...then negative ones.....don't ignore the potential of the truly GREAT. Ignore those that create conflict and stop giving them acknowledgment.

Ms. Self-Respect. | 2010/09/16

Wow. What an amazing collection of answers and feedback if I have ever heard one... It would appear that teachers are not being heard. There is a BIG fear with technology and all the 'unanswered' questions that lie within the usage of such tools. Ultimately...a teacher must reach His or Her Audience...and show them how they love to learn, and be able to instill a self-respect... Based on the nature of our current placement within the global situation, This is a very petty argument and I feel "bullied" as a teacher because there are people who act stupid and irresponsible on social networks...does this MEAN that only the ignorant are allowed to benefit? Why can't a teacher be allowed to be on social sites and SHOW responsible usage...give THEM a voice online...and you will be amazed.... then again, I've seen alot of stupidity online from parents, teachers and students alike----COME on...ADULTS--we have to be 'responsible' with our actions, regardless of your opinions with 'privacy' and the [Explicit] okay to be a 'good' person online with high values, good ethics, and self-respect...when you respect yourself online, others will respect you in return. including students. Believe it or not, there are MORE positive students waiting to be tapped...then negative ones.....don't ignore the potential of the truly GREAT. Ignore those that create conflict and stop giving them acknowledgment.

LeftForDead | 2010/09/16

I have been teaching in California for 37 years and I still get paid under $70,000. I have a double Master's degree, and am fluent in three languages. Every year I teach is worse than the previous as far as respect for teachers goes. The parents cut us off in the parking lot with their Escalades and Hummers. They flip us off. Their kids have better and newer cellphones than all of us. They have better healthcare than all of us. I turn on the radio and hear the latest political craze: teacher bashing. I go to the website where kids rate their teachers and I see that I have been rated OVER %100 quality teacher, loved by all who rate me. But I am sick of this career. Right now I am teaching 6 classes with 44 students in each class. I don't have the time to take a pee. My %$#@ principal calls me in his office to request that I "look the other way" when a certain student repeatedly comes in tardy, because the father is a friend of his. People don't realize that they take 1/3 of MY PAYCHECK in taxes! Do you think it is the teacher's fault? Then you SUCK! Teachers are the best humans in the whole world. Don't forget it.

Mrs. C Teacher | 2010/09/16

Why is there even a question in ANY judge's mind about this? Let them walk a mile in our shoes...

Truth | 2010/09/16

It is not the school's job to discipline the student for posting libelous remarks--not if publishing of the remarks did not take place at school. The teacher should sue the student and the student's parents. If a student destroys a teacher's personal property through vandalism, the school does not go after the student. The police do. Of course, the child should be punished. The First Amendment does not protect the invasion of privacy of a regular citizen, nor does the First Amendment protect the spreading of lies. The school system governs what happens within the school. Our law enforcement and court system take care of matters beyond the school's authorities.

Former Math Teacher | 2010/09/15

Have we yet completely killed any reason for intelligent, caring people to major in education and go into the profession of teaching? The pay is really quite lousy - download the pay scale for Federal employees and compare it to your district, any citizen should be able to get the scale of pay in the district they live in. On top of that, teaching is the only profession I know of in which you have to spend hundreds of dollars every year on materials and supplies. I love the work - when I'm supported by the administration and returned the same respect I give to students, parents, and the community - and anyone going in knows it's mentally, emotionally and physically exhausting; that's expected. But the dangers have become so alarming that many of my colleagues, including myself, are leaving the profession for good. These are not just the people in the first 4 years of their career, who have always had a turnover rate so high it would be considered disastrous by any employer other than a school board. Ask any executive of a U.S. company that cannot fill all of their engineering positions how they feel about the state of education. I've been in meetings and PD with a lot of them, and the ones I've heard from are very concerned. It seems to me as though it's something we should all look at.

Paul in NJ | 2010/09/15

The bottom line on what I am reading, IMO, is the burden of proof that the students' actions are a disruption to the teaching process. If students are allowed to slander teachers and administrators on social websites, those that read it will believe it and potentially ruining the victims reputation and effectiveness as a teacher/administrator. To the court that ruled disruption was not proven, you guys need to stop smoking crack. How would you like it if you, the panel of judges were called crack smoking [Explicit] ? Would it be disrupting your job?

cj | 2010/09/15

@ taxpayer. As a teacher, I generally agree with the other teachers who are saying that the students should be held accountable in some way. Clearly, their parents aren't providing them with discipline, so someone needs to. You said that it should "just be ignored," but if teachers AND parents are "just ignoring" the behavior of the students (or, heaven forbid, encouraging it as these parents seem to be), it's sending the message that what they are doing is perfectly acceptable. You said "kids and adults should have respect," but if we ignore disrespect, then how will kids learn? I don?t think the administrators were blowing it out of proportion. Giving them a suspension? That?s it? I think that?s a fairly light consequence for publicly slandering the principal. I ask you, if one student makes a myspace page imitating another student and pretending that the other student was some drunk prostitute, do you think the student who makes the page should receive consequences or should it just be ignored? If you say, it should be ignored, then I think you would fall into the category of irresponsible parent/adult. While if you say the student should receive consequence, then you have a double standard. As others have mentioned, teachers are human beings too. It might be easy to say ?just ignore it,? but if one of your kids? enemies at school created an account online pretending to be you and posted that you were getting high on drugs and sleeping around, would you really just ignore it? Which brings me to my next point which is that it?s one thing to make a webpage that says, ?I hate this teacher,? but it?s another thing to register for a public profile under someone else?s name and then pretend to be on drugs and sleeping around. Honestly, if some student who was mad at me made a group on facebook that hated me, I?d be hurt, but might not take action against it through the school. However, if a student actually pretended to be me and pretended that I was doing all those things, then I totally think it?s acceptable to go so far as expelling them. They have no right to be pretending to be me. Also, you said, ?No other group is protected specifically from co-workers, bosses, or customers posting lies online - most groups just pay it no mind.? I beg to differ. If you signed up for a facebook account under your boss?s name and pretended that your boss was a drug dealer, and then your boss found out about it, you don?t think there?d be any consequences? Chances are you?d be out of a job pretty quick. Nowadays, employers are looking online for information about employees and potential job candidates and there have been cases where people have been fired/turned away from a job because of things they have posted in their own profiles. The world we live in is increasingly going to be influenced by the internet and a person?s online reputation can have effects in the real world, whether we want them to or not. So what you consider a harmless teenagers prank, could be more serious than you realize. I think that your view on this is partly what perpetuates the problem of lack of respect. Many kids don?t have respect for others anymore because we let them be disrespectful and play it off as them ?just being kids.?

d | 2010/09/15

Sue a couple of them for Libel and/or Slander. And for the Cost of Your suit, if you win, also.

Teacher | 2010/09/15

Just remember, your tax dollars are paying for this "Freedom" of speech!

M Smith | 2010/09/15

I was physically attacked in my teaching capacity and the school has now labeled me a "confrontational teacher." At the time, the student was unhappy that I was contacting his guardian for help in getting him to do his [Explicit] . I did not expect the [Explicit] and was permanently injured without compensation. My union had to file a grievance to get my contracted [Explicit] leave paid. I no longer have a desire to teach. Cyberspace defamation would never be addressed in my district.

Phyllis Eby | 2010/09/15

I am aware of school employees who have been warned, disciplined or fired for posting things that are judged to be inappropriate or unprofessional toward students or administrators. Yet students and parents are deemed to have First Amendment protection for posting negative comments about school employees. The same rights do not seem to extend in the both directions.

Mrs. M | 2010/09/15

There's a HUGE difference between saying Mrs. M is mean/unfair/smelly/I hate her and making a webpage accusing me of being a criminal in a career that is very sensitive to such acts. I could care less about the first set of comments. Being a fairly strict teacher that has certain expectations means you're going to get those comments. The second set is both untrue and harmful to my reputation as a professional and therefore unacceptable.

Teacher | 2010/09/15

Accountability, respect, kindness...just some of the things we try to add to our lesson plans each and every day.If students are allowed to misrepresent teachers on-line how can we possibly continue teaching these important morals in school. God help the world of the future!

Richard Beattie | 2010/09/15

I would uphold a student's right to go online and say all the things they want to ABOUT their teacher. Even setting up a webpage and inviting others to join in the bashing I see as allowable. Where I find a difference though, is when the student tries to represent something on the internet as being something FROM the teacher (e.g., a fake Facebook page). This almost borders of identity theft and needs to not only be punished, but prosecuted. Also, anything depicting something harmful happening to a teacher, such as their murder, is nothing short of a threat and also needs to be prosecuted - not just punished. If we are teaching them about the real world and how it works, try saying something like that against their boss at their workplace - they'll be fired in no time. There are real ramifications for inappropriate speech. Students may have the right to say anything they want, but they also have to be taught the personal responsibility of taking the punishment for saying it.

Richard Travers | 2010/09/15

Are you kidding me? The student uses school computers to libel a teacher and the school department should have nothing to do with it? Does the student have the right to freedom of expression by dissing a teacher on the internet? How far we have sunk as teachers........to new lows, attacked by idiots who will do anything to disrupt the educational process. What's next - a 30 min student infomercial proclaiming "Ms Fillintheblank" is a lousy teacher? Where's the moral outrage! Absolutely not! Students never have had the right to embarrass a teacher and they never will take a teacher down due to slander in public! Throw the book at them - there must be a consequence for the cruel action of deliberately hurting someone's reputation.

LAinSEA | 2010/09/15

One way to address this growing problem is to strengthen the language in districts' anti-harassment policies (staff-to-staff, staff-to-student, student-to-staff, student-to-student). For the first time this year, our H.S.'s student policy handbook addresses bullying via social media and cell phones on a student-to-student basis. The extension of this policy to all members of the academic community would make education about this type of (mis)conduct and enforcement of consequences more supportable in a court of law protecting staff and students alike.

Teach? | 2010/09/15

If the courts will not uphold the teachers' right to privacy and their right to work without being intimidated during the course of their employment, then these teachers need to start suing these kids for defamation of character. Taking money from the parents pockets will certainly cut down the useless "Internet" defacing time. Respect your teachers, even if you don't like them. Teachers have free speech too. This behavior from teachers would never be tolerated. Or, would it?

Susan Kohi | 2010/09/15

If I even think about asking a student to be quiet, watch his language in my classroom, stop defacing the textbooks or take his seat I am called to a disciplinary meeting where I am admonished and interrogated about the way I deal with students.Every word I say that is not pleasing to a student is reported to a counselor or an administrator and I am consequently treated like a criminal.My classroom is considered "unsafe" because I change students'seating or call on them at random and that embarrasses them. Yet on the very rare occasion when they do confess to having lied about me, they are never asked to apologize or told that what they did is unacceptable. They are allowed to say or do anything they wish against a teacher and the results are stunning: Rubber Rooms in New York, defamation on numerous blogs and social networks, jobs lost and reputations ruined. Anyone considering teaching needs to understand that if they are not entertaining the students and striving to be the most popular teacher on campus, they are in danger of being sabotaged, harassed or worse The people in charge will stand by the students every time.

Susan Kohi | 2010/09/15

If I even think about asking a student to be quiet, watch his language in my classroom, stop defacing the textbooks or take his seat I am called to a disciplinary meeting where I am admonished and interrogated about the way I deal with students.Every word I say that is not pleasing to a student is reported to a counselor or an administrator and I am consequently treated like a criminal.My classroom is considered "unsafe" because I change students'seating or call on them at random and that embarrasses them. Yet on the very rare occasion when they do confess to having lied about me, they are never asked to apologize or told that what they did is unacceptable. They are allowed to say or do anything they wish against a teacher and the results are stunning: Rubber Rooms in New York, defamation on numerous blogs and social networks, jobs lost and reputations ruined. Anyone considering teaching needs to understand that if they are not entertaining the students and striving to be the most popular teacher on campus, they are in danger of being sabotaged, harassed or worse The people in charge will stand by the students every time.

Jutti | 2010/09/15

What is this "explicit" thingy? The word it replaced in my last post was "thinking."

Jutti | 2010/09/15

I am glad I left the teaching profession. That it would even be considered "free speech" when students pull these kinds of stunts boggles the mind. My other question: what are the parents thinking? I'm [Explicit] that it was probably the parents who filed these lawsuits. If I had done something like that during my school career I would have lost my computer/Internet priviledges and be forced to make a public apology. As far as calling a teacher or administrator incompetent: if this is true there are other, more appropriate venues, to address this problem.

California Teacher | 2010/09/15

... breaking, that is...

California Teacher | 2010/09/15

Libel is tricky to define: http://www.personal-injury-info.net/libel-definition.htm, but it is surely illegal and justification for a lawsuit. I am a hard-core free speech believer, but also believe that libel laws were created for good reasons in our free speech country. If the claim is adult-level free speech rights, the response is reasonable adult accountability, legal or within the school . And aren't there laws about parent responsibility for a minor child's braking the law?

Ronald J. Cappuccio | 2010/09/15

I believe that students should not be punished by the school system for their outside internet (or newspaper) publishing. If something is libelous, then the Victim can take an action. The school system should not get involved. The school system is for the students and should do everything possible to encourage a practical understanding of the US Constitution by its application.

Amaroque | 2010/09/15

@Are You Kidding Me: Are you kidding yourself to honestly believe that all students have just recourse when being treated poorly by a teacher? In my unfortunate experience, more often than not they have none.

Amaroque | 2010/09/15

@wildcat: Forgive me as I did not mean to imply when a child acts like that, that abuse of the teacher was always the case. I only said it wouldn't surprise me it that was the case. I am just suggesting that sometimes its necessary to look inward and see if/how we may be contributing to the problem.

Amaroque | 2010/09/15

@wildcat: Attitudes like yours have driven kids to actions such as those.

Robert Emerson | 2010/09/15

When I was in high school a hated principal was hanged in effigy from the school flagpole. The principal had, in fact, made some inappropriate comments which prompted this, however several students were suspended, or perhaps expelled (it's been forty some years, so I'm not sure). However, community members took note of the principal's earlier behavior, and in the end he lost his job because of that. Took a year or so, but as my dad said at that time, "The students had his number. We should have gotten the message earlier." The truth will out.

? | 2010/09/15

I am a public school teacher by choice as well, and I agree that after 25 years of teaching, it is very hard to teach in a school community where a group of students have the control in the building. Schools are communities in themselves and it is very hard to teach in a school where a teacher has been slandered and where false comments have been posted or made about that individual. But, adults in the real world and the community at large are held accountable for their actions in our world and so should our students. I do believe that the majority of our society does support teachers, educators, and our youth- but any individual should face consequences for this criminal behavior.

Bob | 2010/09/15

@Taxpayer You're an idiot, drool on yourself, scream at people in traffic, and everybody hates you. If I was a student and wrote that about you, you wouldn't mind? If you don't react to this post, then I suppose you wouldn't mind...

Bryan | 2010/09/15

Has anyone mentioned filing a libel suit against the students?

Taxpayer | 2010/09/15

Taxpayer2 and others....Having a different viewpoint from, and heaven forbid, an ounce of criticism for teachers is not (despite your self-created definition) stupidity. I've got numerous teachers in the family (spouse included) and support all of my daughter's teachers (yes, the devil's spawn is one of your customers). I've never suggested the acceptability of teacher-bashing online or anywhere; I simply pointed out it's not worthy of your attention. No serious person makes judgments about people based on what they read on Facebook or elsewhere online. Kids have always spread false rumors and lies about teachers - in days gone by sensible people treated these accordingly - ignoring these little losers. Feeding into these kids self-importance by paying attention to their time wasted with their faces glued to a computer screen is counter-productive. I agree with many of the sentiments posted here - kids and adults should have respect, kids have largely gotten out of control, and nobody should lose their job over lies posted online....However, the hypersensitivity expressed here is silly. No other group is protected specifically from co-workers, bosses, or customers posting lies online - most groups just pay it no mind.

a teacher | 2010/09/15

When I began working in my district some 17 years ago, 2 parents who were like velcro got together and decided they did not like me due to my weight. One mother was a dietician and the other a nurse. Both were just whiney (expletives.) However, I never recovered at that particular school with all the negative publicity I received that was begun by their nonsense. Lies, innuendos, and it all snowballed after a few years to almost ridiculous lengths. After 6 years I decided to just put in for a transfer and it was the best career decision I ever made! Never did I ever have any problems after moving from that particular school. Just goes to show you how stupid parents who just like to be whiney and get their way and cause unjust trouble for any teacher out there if the teacher is not their "ideal perception" of perfect!

Call Me Late For Dinner | 2010/09/15

I agree with taxpayer EXCEPT for the situations in which a legal allegation is made i.e., the claim is that you did something illegal.

joe | 2010/09/15

Sue the parents for not monitoring their children's computer use. It is probaly the parents who pay for the computer, monthly internet access, etc. They are the individuals to be held accountable for their children's actions.

Teacher | 2010/09/15

I am tired of this nonsense of allowing children to do anything they want and excusing their behavior just becuase they are children. What [Explicit] . There are consequences for bad choices and yes, one of the consequences may be a life that is temporarily ruined. I would sue the student and parent if I ever found myself in this situation. It is the principle of the matter, and I have rights also. My rights as an adult are not negated for those of an angry student who decided to [Explicit] and defame another individual.

Taxpayer 2 | 2010/09/15

I am public school teacher by choice and a taxpayer so I guess you could say I work for myself. I will say this about TAXPAYER's comments, please don't comment any more. It is obvious that your stupidity about the purpose of public education is only exceeded by your ignorance of what the job is really like. It is very hard to teach when you have lost respect. And, anyone who knows anything about the teaching profession will tell you that respecting a teacher is not limited to a classroom. Schools are not just designed to educate but also socialize individuals. When a community of students has decided that you are no longer worth listening to because of something false someone posted, it is very hard to earn the respect back complicating your ability to do your job. I don't expect you to understand nor care, just, please don't breed. The world needs people who support both students and teachers and from your ignorant comments, it is obvious you support neither.

Taxpayer 2 | 2010/09/15

I am public school teacher by choice and a taxpayer so I guess you could say I work for myself. I will say this about TAXPAYER's comments, please don't comment any more. It is obvious that your stupidity about the purpose of public education is only exceeded by your ignorance of what the job is really like. It is very hard to teach when you have lost respect. And, anyone who knows anything about the teaching profession will tell you that respecting a teacher is not limited to a classroom. Schools are not just designed to educate but also socialize individuals. When a community of students has decided that you are no longer worth listening to because of something false someone posted, it is very hard to earn the respect back complicating your ability to do your job. I don't expect you to understand nor care, just, please don't breed. The world needs people who support both students and teachers and from your ignorant comments, it is obvious you support neither.

CCF | 2010/09/15

What about when a student (or parent) anonymously accuses a teacher of various perverted activities and the district takes action against the teacher without verifying the identity of the accuser? No personal appearance or sworn statement by the accuser! This happened to me!

Valerie W. | 2010/09/15

An important question to ask is whether the Internet has the same status as a newspaper or magazine. If it does, and I think it does, then posting vicious remarks or untrue remarks is libel, and prosecutable in a court of law. The assumption must be made that the student posted the remarks with the intent to defame, since the posting is public. It is not one student blowing off steam to a friend. Since the educator or administrator carries the authority of the school, the student has reached into the school and beyond an individual, a fact which the courts must take into account.

Thom | 2010/09/15

The liberal, feel good, anythings OK lessons lessons are coming home to roost... look to the "there is no right and wrong, only different points of view" teachings you folks have advanced over the years... How does it feel when it's YOU on the receiving end? PAY ATTENTION & LEARN!!! Our actions have consequences.

Thom | 2010/09/15

The liberal, feel good, anythings OK lessons lessons are coming home to roost... look to the "there is no right and wrong, only different points of view" teachings you folks have advanced over the years... How does it feel when it's YOU on the receiving end? PAY ATTENTION & LEARN!!! Our actions have consequences.

Chelsea R. | 2010/09/15

First, to stick up for my fellow teachers! I am a highly qualified teacher with an M.A. in education in which I got straight A's and two teaching credentials by the time I was 22. Yet despite 10 hour days lesson-planning, teaching, writing curriculum, grading, and working during my "vacations", I could not make everyone happy; the people who like to complain, still complained. Despite doing everything in my power, it was still not enough for the naysayers. It just goes to show, that people who love to complain will do it no matter what. As for the issue at hand, it is digusting how much lack of respect teachers get nowadays whether it be by the students, their parents, or those in power. You bet I would take the students to court for slandering my reputation and jeapordizing my career. I have worked very hard to get where I am and part of what students need to learn, especially in today's day and age, is consequences for their actions. It is a hard lesson but a necessary one to prevent them from making larger mistakes with larger consequences.

Are you Kidding Me?! | 2010/09/15

The Amaroque suggestion that in some way it is the teacher/administrators fault because the student felt they had no other means of expressing his or her self is ludicrous! It is symptomatic of the bigger problem, which is people want to make excuses for young adults who behave inappropriately. I wonder if the judges who ruled in favor of the student who portrayed the teacher as a drunk, etc. would have ruled the same way had it been a fellow judge.

Chelsea R. | 2010/09/15

?

Mike | 2010/09/15

Forgive me is someone has posted this point of view earlier. As a high school teacher, most of my students are not "children", but young adults. Many of my kids are in the area of eighteen years old. On many occasions I have tried to teach my students that if they have a problem, they need to address that issue face to face. In the adult world, this is often the most effective and preferred way to resolve issues. As many of you are aware, [Explicit] and drama does little more than adding fuel to a fire. If a student wants to cyber-bash me because they need to vent, I really don't care. However, if their actions prevent me from doing my job, making it an uncomfortable environment, or otherwise impeding my quality of life, then there is an issue. The actions of many of the students mentioned in this article could be viewed as cyber-bulling. If one student does this to another, everyone cries foul and rightly so. How does my position and age make the action any different?

wakeup | 2010/09/15

Amaroque- I was the victim of such cyber bullying by a former student and I myself am not a bully. This was a student I had gotten along well with and had even given an award to. She failed an extra credit [Explicit] , stormed off, and two days later there was a hate website set up about me with her friends (not students of mine) as members. Teens often react impulsively to what they feel is unjust and many of the boundaries (which include grades) we try to set up for them are of course not appreciated by them- acting out this way might be because the teacher is bad, but it might also be out of gross immaturity.

wakeup | 2010/09/15

Amaroque- I was the victim of such cyber bullying by a former student and I myself am not a bully. This was a student I had gotten along well with and had even given an award to. She failed an extra credit [Explicit] , stormed off, and two days later there was a hate website set up about me with her friends (not students of mine) as members. Teens often react impulsively to what they feel is unjust and many of the boundaries (which include grades) we try to set up for them are of course not appreciated by them- acting out this way might be because the teacher is bad, but it might also be out of gross immaturity.

Bear | 2010/09/15

If our job as educators is to prepare students for the "real world," then such attacks should not be acceptable. I don't think such postings about one's "boss" would fly on Wall Street or at the local factory. We are professionals. It's time that we demand to be treated as such.

Wild Cat | 2010/09/15

Come on Amaroque, it is attitudes like yours that have opened the door for kids to say whatever they want without ever feeling there will be a consequence. Is this how the real world works?

? | 2010/09/15

Come on Amaroque, it is attitudes like yours that have opened the door for kids to say whatever they want without ever feeling there will be a consequence. Is this how the real world works.

owndkw | 2010/09/15

jakfw ladjfw forea fafraw amkjoicmw voajwlco awoijc a ijwlkjoc alkneo el aaoiwekd djlkad. wihekaj akjwe we kdic wetr. lweocul wwdike aoickc!

Kay Bee | 2010/09/15

The First Amendment protects some, but not all speech. Defamation of character is one not protected, but difficult and expensive to prosecute. Three hundred years ago, Peter Zenger's case made sure that the truth is the best defense against libel. The best revenge is to make sure that the posts/websites, etc. follow the student as he proceeds through life - try getting a job with this reference. Let the parents know you will take a great interest in their child's path...

Kate | 2010/09/15

Taxpayer: So it would be okay for someone at your job to post on line that you were a [Explicit] addict or for you to post that about your boss?

Patricia | 2010/09/15

When a 12 year old makes up lies about a veteran teacher, then posts that the teacher is getting FIRED, that gets personal. There are laws that protect teachers too. When teachers are supported by their school district and laws of common decency then a showdown with the violating slanderous youngsters makes them sing like canaries. It is amazing how a mention of a slander lawsuit clears the message boards! Teachers DO have rights, and we need to stand up for ourselves!

Amaroque | 2010/09/15

@Kay Bee Seriously? You would want to destroy a child's life for expressing anger and frustration (albeit in an inappropriate way) over a situation for which they obviously felt otherwise powerless?

Teacher violated | 2010/09/15

?

Amaroque | 2010/09/15

I know this is going to come across as blaming the victim, but they are the adult in this relationship. I think the teacher/principal needs to step back and evaluate why they have such a poor relationship with the student that the student feels the need to lash out at them. What is making them feel so disenfranchised to resort to slander in a public forum? I find that by conveying to a student that I care about and respect them as individuals, they pay me the same courtesy. While I'm not condoning the student's method of expressing their emotion, I have to wonder if the teacher/principal didn't bully them to the point that they felt that this was their only means to [Explicit] their voice. In other words, did the teacher/principal get what's coming to them?

bg | 2010/09/15

I'm seeing lots of people use the terms slander and libel. It certainly sounds like these expressions (while probably distasteful and inappropriate) are clearly parodies and have a mocking tone. Folks cannot successfully sue Saturday Night Live for making fun of them. That these parodies are made by people under 18 doesn't change that. Can the school take action? Yes, if it can prove these posts disrupt their ability to function at school.

jeannie | 2010/09/15

Since when has libel been protected under the first amendment?

Demetria | 2010/09/15

?

Red Bud | 2010/09/15

Kids today are out of control spoiled, self-centered and their parents are worse. It is time for the teachers to walk out for the indignities we suffer. So the economy is bad?? Even a laid off person wouldn't want to be a teacher today.

? | 2010/09/15

Dude! Like seriously . . . yuh know . . . You?re, like, incomprehensible.

? | 2010/09/15

Dude! Like seriously . . . yuh know . . . You?re, like, incomprehensible.

Fountainhead-ite | 2010/09/15

Norma, can you repeat that? Another California teacher I presume.

kevin | 2010/09/15

If students may vilify their teachers on line then I suggest that teachers might have the right to broadcast the truth about their students. How about this? "Your precious little spawn is a perfectly spoiled little brat used to getting his way by bullying his peers and terrorizing his classmates into complying with his ever increasing selfish demands. His transfer to some other school would be a great blessing to students and staff alike"

Norma Terrigno | 2010/09/15

Perhaps we need to take a good look at what some celebrities like Calol Burnett were forced to do when some newspapers published sensationalistic articles depicting them in a negative fashion. Many have sued for libel and WON large settlements. Aren't teachers human beings in the public eye that also deserve to be treated with dignity? Parents need to know there are limits with legal consequences + SUSPENSIONS.

Norma Terrigno | 2010/09/15

Perhaps we need to take a good look at what some celebrities like Calol Burnett were forced to do when some newspapers published sensationalistic articles depicting them in a negative fashion. Many have sued for libel and WON large settlements. Aren't teachers human beings in the public eye that also deserve to be treated with dignity? Parents need to know there are limits with legal consequences + SUSPENSIONS.

Norma Terrigno | 2010/09/15

Perhaps we need to take a good look at what some celebrities like Calol Burnett were forced to do when some newspapers published sensationalistic articles depicting them in a negative fashion. Many have sued for libel and WON large settlements. Aren't teachers human beings in the public eye that also deserve to be treated with dignity? Parents need to know there are limits with legal consequences + SUSPENSIONS.

Norma Terrigno | 2010/09/15

Perhaps we need to take a good look at what some celebrities like Calol Burnett were forced to do when some newspapers published sensationalistic articles depicting them in a negative fashion. Many have sued for libel and WON large settlements. Aren't teachers human beings in the public eye that also deserve to be treated with dignity? Parents need to know there are limits with legal consequences + SUSPENSIONS.

Norma Terrigno | 2010/09/15

Perhaps we need to take a good look at what some celebrities like Calol Burnett were forced to do when some newspapers published sensationalistic articles depicting them in a negative fashion. Many have sued for libel and WON large settlements. Aren't teachers human beings in the public eye that also deserve to be treated with dignity? Parents need to know there are limits with legal consequences + SUSPENSIONS.

Fountainhead-ite | 2010/09/15

Be careful CA Teacher, Charles Z. doesn't take kindly to responses riddled with mistakes. The fact that the education system failed you as well will only serve to get Charlie mad...or maybe not since you claim to be a teacher. Teachers in California must have faced stiff competition to get "there" jobs. Now at least I know that teachers in California with "now" qualifications could never be hired. I am shivering with fright in anticipation of Charles Z's coming wrath at your educational shortcomings...especially since I haven't seen any substantive statements coming from him...

Louise | 2010/09/15

What a revolting development Cyberspace has become! I think we have only ourselves to blame. The students are mimicking adults. Ok think of the politicians and their tongues and antics, parents who say whatever negatives and usage of expletive deletives about people before their children. Is it any wonder the children act the way they do. Words like shame, respect, honesty, integrity, self-respect are acts of the distant past. The Courts will not be able to control the Internet. Its already a monster. The genie is out of the bottle and he is running wild.

Razzle | 2010/09/15

If a teacher in my district can get fired for posting my negative opinions about students on MySpace, then students should be held to the same standard. I have children and I would hate for them to come across something negative about me written by former students.

Taxpayer | 2010/09/15

"CA Teacher" - I believe you mean "their jobs" and "and no" (not "an now").. Mary, thanks for "pubic figure"..Charles - there are mistakes in MY post?....I'll go back to looking inside myself for the root of the problem and a solution, now...you go back to school for another taxpayer-paid teacher to further educate you....All I said was you should have better things to do than cry about what children post about you guys online and you've gone nuts with criticism over that comment.....You give way too much value and power to silly things.

CA Teacher | 2010/09/15

I'm thinking that "Taxpayer" thinks teachers just get there jobs with out any competition an now qualifications. Maybe "Taxpayer" should walk a mile in my shoes...once you start pointing a finger and blaming others, you really need to look inside yourself for the root of the problem and a solution.

Juliet Shen | 2010/09/15

The generation that believes the internet is a lawless free-for-all is the same generation that ignores intellectual property laws as well as libel laws. Libel is an illegal activity and should be prosecuted, with unions supporting their teachers who are attacked. Our schools should teach students that this behavior is wrong and there are consequences. We realize that youths can be victims of malicious online attacks, too, and agree it is not desirable to ignore this kind of activity. Teachers need the same protection.

Bill | 2010/09/15

It seems that some of these cases could be considered for a defamation of character type suit by the teacher of administrator against the student and their family.

Jim Vaughan | 2010/09/15

?

S. Brooten | 2010/09/15

Slander is slander. No matter what venue is utilized to perpetrate the slander, it still is a serious issue. Teachers have rights like any other professional and legal action is always an viable option.

Fountainhead-ite | 2010/09/15

Charles Z., are you defaming taxpayer? Shame on you! With your lofty air and condescending attitutde one would think you know better than that...

J from NJ | 2010/09/15

Perhaps the little urchins should understand responsibility for actions, i.e., slander will get you and your parents into a civil court. Pay attention to that parents. Unfortunately, since it would be bad "publicity" for the School District, and as someone who has teachers in the family, I suspect that the School District would then make life for the teacher very difficult.

A teacher in Kansas | 2010/09/15

I am guessing that Taxpayer is not in the education profession, nor does he/she have any idea what goes on in neighboring schools. Some children in today's society are not required to respect any adult, including their parents! I agree with many of the sentiments posted so far. When a student puts damaging information into a print media (and I include the electronic media here), long-lasting and permanent injury can be the result. There should be some recourse for the damaged parties!

? | 2010/09/15

freedom of speech is for opinions, but not for libel or slander. I would take the offending students to court civilly if it came to that. It is one thing to say someone is the worst teacher you hasve had. It is another to [Explicit] their character. As an educator I hper the courts rely upon this fundemantal difference between freedom and hurting someone's career and reputation. Kerry Honey a department chair of foreign language and French teacher

Kathleen Harrison | 2010/09/15

As a teacher, I know that I work my hardest and I do expect my students to show me the respect that my position and education deserve. I believe that, depending on the severity of libel, I would take action. Taxpayer, No one should be subject to defamation of character.

? | 2010/09/15

Judges who thinks we cannot go to students' home and sieze their computer for this matter should not prosecute people who sell drugs and illegal substance in the internet either.

L. Chao | 2010/09/15

Thank you all for supporting educaters. Our citizens children and adults must understand that Freedome of Speech is a freedome to express your opinion. It is not a freedome of presenting false information or purposely mischaracterize someone. If this is allowed,we will soon found ourselves in a chaotic society.

Taxpayer | 2010/09/15

You teachers should concentrate more on teaching the kids, continuous improvement, and earning our tax dollars than on civil actions and union bullying - In the real world we compete for our jobs and EARN respect - not demand it because we're a psuedo "authority figure". Crying about what children post about you online; please.

Randall | 2010/09/15

one would think that the Union would legally pursue civil suits on behalf of its members who are being defamed and slandered

Mary White | 2010/09/15

Excuse me, I meant public figure. No need to slander myself in the process of leaving a comment online!

Charles Z. | 2010/09/15

Taxpayer, it is clear that the education system failed you. Your response is riddled with mistakes, many of which I'm sure you still cannot find.

Mary White | 2010/09/15

You could try to bring a slander/ defamation lawsuit (proving the words are untrue AND actually damaged you fiscally or professionally, AND arguably that you are a "pubic figure,") but given all that, you might still have to pay an attorney a retainer of several thousand dollars up front, with no guarantee of recovery or how long the suit could drag on -- possibly years. And it's unpredictable how your district will weigh in. Not to mention the emotional drama and time pressure of participating in a lawsuit. You might be up against your local ACLU, depending on the facts. Overall, a daunting task. - Mary White, J.D., M.Ed.

Randa Weigel | 2010/09/15

Once a student crosses the line of posting on the internet, it should not be considered..."reaching into a child's home..." During a recent inservice we, teachers, have been cautioned on internet social medias and that we could face discipline or firing if we post anything that can be considered inappropriate about the school district, district employees, students or parents. Furthermore, we were cautioned that district attorneys might not be available to us in such a case. Children should be held to the same level.

Suzanne Bentz | 2010/09/15

Thank you, Joanne, for standing up for teachers. I am a teacher, and I appreciate your support! Such behavior from students is simply terrible. What has happened to our children that they no longer feel respect for authority figures?

Joanne C | 2010/09/15

And you wonder why so many teachers leave the profession! This is just plain wrong! Stuff like this posted by kids should not be allowed. It ruins lives and reputations.

Cyndie Van Hook | 2010/09/15

It certainly seems to me that at the very least these teachers and principals have grounds for slander/defamation suits against the students and their parents.

Bob Cisneros | 2010/09/15

Am I right that regardless, nothing would preclude civil action in a libel/slander defamation of character lawsuit?

Rights Watch

Cyber Speak No Evil

In a flood of lawsuits, students are challenging punishment for ridiculing teachers and principals in cyberspace.

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